EP 04 TRANSCRIPT

…just in case you wanna read

Cara: 00:00 You’re listening to the Make Space podcast. Episode Number Four.

Speaker 3: 00:22 Welcome to make space a home design show made to inspire you to create spaces you truly feel at home in Cara Newhart sits down with amazingly brilliant guests for conversations that dive deeper than pin worthy rooms to tease out the essentials of creating spaces that feed your soul and inspire your creativity from home design strategies to decor, advice to interior design tips and tricks. These conversations help you dream up a beautifully lived in home. Cara is the designer and chief creative enthusiast behind, Never Skip Brunch. Her work has been featured in print publications like people style watch and Denver Style magazine as an influencer. Cara has collaborated with brands like Amazon, h and m, Twitter and Thrillist. Here’s your host, Cara Newhart.

Cara: 01:21 Hey guys, it’s Cara and today we are talking about why you need physical space in your relationship there. Today, I’m sitting down with my husband and we are going to talk about why physical space is important in your relationship and some ways we’ve found that in our own home. Welcome Rich.

Rich: 01:41 Hi everybody. Thanks for having me, Cara. It’s a pleasure to be here after watching this podcast be produced constantly.

Cara: 01:47 I’m a little nervous. I don’t know what you’re going to say.

Rich: 01:50 Why?

Cara: 01:50 I don’t know.

Rich: 01:51 I’m not like a loose cannon.

Cara: 01:54 Depends on the day. Um, so first of all, let’s talk about why physical space is important in your relationship.

Rich: 02:01 Talk about what we learned the hard way?

Cara: 02:03 Yes, yes. Let’s start out by talking about that side. So when we first moved in together, we had a one bedroom apartment and we didn’t know how to have physical space.

Cara: 02:13 No, it was, it was one giant joint space. We just sat in the same room together and then went to bed together. We didn’t even have like a separate set of chairs that we could sit on. No, it was like we are in the same spot on the couch every single night and you’re never alone. And then we eventually learned how to do our own activities on the couch. So like I do computer stuff and you would do games.

Rich: 02:36 Yeah. But you’re still sitting next to finally figured out that if she opens the laptop and I put on a headset and play Xbox like that, that starts to accomplish what we’re going for here a little bit.

Cara: 02:46 Yeah. So we’ve learned that becoming aware of the role that physical space plays in your marriage dynamic is important first of all, because individuality, you get to be your own person instead of like attached to the hip.

Rich: 03:01 And I think the point is is you don’t have to want to be next to each other all the time. If you’re that couple, congratulations, we all kind of find you disgusting. But, uh, anyway,

Cara: 03:13 it probably is just the honeymoon phase, like that’s okay for a year. Yeah. Not even a year, but you know, and then you kind of have to find your own,

Rich: 03:20 that works for a time, a hopefully a, you have the option later in your marriage or in your relationship to maybe acquire some more space. That always helps. If you can afford a house where everyone has two rooms, congratulations. Um, but not everybody has that. So we’re here to talk about how you kind of carve out your own space within what you know, what you have to work with.

Cara: 03:40 Yeah. So the other really important thing is hobbies. I don’t know, I guess I just love having hobbies, but I feel like everyone needs space to be doing their hobbies.

Rich: 03:50 Yeah, I mean I think it’s rare that you have the exact same hobbies as your spouse. I mean, it’s not impossible, but very rarely is your space going to be conducive to my hobby and vice versa. Like it’s hard. It’s hard for somebody to feel like it’s totally yours when it’s, you know, half somebody else’s. That seems very obvious. I think the first thing as a, from the, from the male perspective that we all think is, oh, the basement, the main cave and gave a, yeah. The sports den, all that. And I think what I found when we did our basement was it’s, it’s a nice big space. Um, but it’s not very private. We’ve got a guest bedroom down there, we’ve got a guest bathroom, we’ve got some of your stuff. We’ve got some of my stuff. We’ve got some of our daughter’s stuff.

Rich: 04:34 And as much as you want that to be your man cave and maybe it is 80% of the time I give it, it’s not fully yours. It just doesn’t feel the same. Yeah, that’s true. So I think you’ve really got to start to like strike that balance between size and privacy. Like just because it’s the basement and you’ve got all this room. We put in a massive couch in a bar and a TV and all these guy things that you might love doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the best. I know personally, when I took over one of our bedrooms, one of our spare bedrooms and turned it into an office where I could do a lot of the same things. Um, it, it felt so much more private and so much more my own. Um, ever since then cause it takes one guest to come into the house and need to use the guest’s room and suddenly you’ve lost your man cave.

Cara: 05:20 Um, I feel like everyone needs a different amount of personal space, like not just size wise but also depending on like your personality, even your love language. If you want to get all sappy, like I’m a cuddler so I don’t need that much space.

Rich: 05:34 You like a lot of windows. You’d like to be able to see out what’s going on still, even though it’s your space. And then just like time wise, like I need, I need a little bit of time away from you, but I could sit next to you most, most of the day and be fine and see, I was desperate for a door like the way now that I can close a door, that’s been a game changer for me. It’s like it can seal me off from the rest of the house. I think when the house is a little chaotic, whether it’s Christmas, family time, whether it’s just cause it’s Kinda messy and I’ve had a really long stressful day and I just don’t want to be sitting in it.

Rich: 06:05 Like my little room is always perfect for me. Yeah. And I can shut the door and kind of forget about it. And you know, do a lot of things you would do otherwise. I mean, as people continue to unplug or cut the cord, you know, we use Hulu live. I think a lot of other people do too. You don’t need as much to make it into to make a space your own. You know, you need a computer, you need some Internet connection and suddenly you have all the TV at your fingertips. You have everything you need, um, to sort of craft around your hobbies, talk about a way to make a sports stand. Computer monitors are way cheaper than TVs are. Um, three or four of those bad boys. And you basically have a sports bar.

Cara: 06:43 Yeah. So we, I guess we should dive in to like talking about each of our spaces and kind of like some tips on how we created our own dedicated rooms and our experience. And then we’ll also share some advice for how to get your own personal space if you don’t have like your own spare room sitting around. Um, but just some things to keep in mind, like think about like the different kinds of space you might need based on your hobbies based on like your dynamic, um, your personality, all of that. Cause that’s kind of your starting point for deciding what you need. So for us, we were lucky cause we needed two totally different kinds of areas. Like I needed a lot of natural light. I love windows, I do a lot of photography. Um, so the office space on the main level was like immediately mine built for you.

Cara: 07:33 In fact. Yes. Um, and it kind of took you longer to find an area cause we did the like traditional man cave thing first and

Rich: 07:40 yeah. Why don’t you talk about how you put your office together though and all the things you’ve done with that.

Cara: 07:44 Oh yeah. Okay. Well, so with my own space I’m kind of lucky size wise, cause it’s not just like a tiny closet with a desk. Um, but that being said, I have a lot going on. It’s like totally a multi-use space and I’ve really tried to carve out like a corner for everything. So I have like a desk for my computer. If you’ve seen like my office post, I talk about like dual desk and how you could have like a tech desk and then a more like creative space to be able to spread out. Um, tech-free I have little podcast area around the desk and then a bunch of good storage for all my DIY projects and um, all the shop stuff.

Cara: 08:23 So like shipping labels and all of that. Um, I will link to all of the posts on the blog as far as like the actual decor cause there’s like the curtain styling my accent walls and I know you guys are gonna want to see pictures of that so I will link to those posts for the decor. But as far as like functional stuff, that’s kind of what I tried to do is like take the space and make it fully mine and carve out an area for kind of all my different hobbies and everything I needed it to be. You guys will notice that was that

Rich: 08:53 she said accent walls. That’s a, that’s Cara Diane Newhart in a, in a nutshell. There are, I’m looking at one striped wall, uh, one sort of Lippard printy wall. That’s a technical term for those of you listening at home. Um, I’m looking at several different colors of curtains, so she’s done a really good job of making her own. Uh, on the flip side, I did the classic mistake. I thought, man, the basement, we’ve touched on that a little bit. I went classic man cave. I let her pick the furniture because that’s just, you know, to the benefit of the whole family. I don’t see color very well. So, but then I just started to discover that while I had a lot of space to do a lot of things, I wasn’t really using it at all. And on top of that, anytime someone came to town, anytime we had, you know, a group of people in our home, I lost my space because as much fun as it seems that you could, you know, maybe play Xbox or watch an NFL game next door to your mother-in-law’s bedroom for the weekend, it just doesn’t actually work out in practicality the way you think it would.

Rich: 09:54 You know, maybe she’s trying to rest and maybe I’m being loud. Suddenly you have a give and take and if you’re going to make your own space, there should really be no give and take in my personal opinion. So I moved up to a bedroom upstairs that was her daughter’s nursery. She moved into a larger bedroom. Um, and I took that over and it’s been fantastic to Cara’s point where she said she had done, you know, a a corner for everything. I really honed in on my favorite hobby. Um, my favorite hobby is video games. I come home from work, I use it to distress. It’s really one of the only things I can do in this world that is almost completely mindless. If that’s, I mean, I know that’s reinforcing a stereotype, but at the same time like it really is like if I need to shut off, nothing does it better than that.

Rich: 10:41 Um, and when I realized that that’s really what I, I do after work most days as much as I want to pretend like I’m going to also watch football and also, you know, stream all these things. And maybe, you know, watch a hockey game. I just, you don’t, I, I turn on my Xbox to turn on my playstation now I turn on my PC and I, and I play. That’s how I distressed after the kid goes to sleep. So when it came to setting up my space, I focused solely on that. I didn’t try to fit a bar in there. I didn’t try to fit some big leather chair. I don’t have a humidor. I took the core of what helps me unwind in the evenings and built my space around that core. So Nice computer desk, a nice comfortable chair, good lighting for that type of thing.

Rich: 11:26 And that’s really all that’s in there. I mean there’s one big comfortable chair, there’s a good computer chair, there’s a couple of accidents, furnitures. Um, and there’s my computer and I can go in there and I can, I can watch, I can watch sports if I want to on Hulu, I can watch TV shows, but I can also just sit in there and teach stress and watch a video game. And I think it’s so important to know that the size just really isn’t what it’s all about. Sometimes it’s the ability to shut your door. It’s privacy that comes with it. And that is what made that space so special to me. So if you’re got a husband who’s thinking, really if you hear the complaint, Oh gray, I lose my man cave this weekend. Think about suggesting that he puts it somewhere else. I mean, I picked it all up, I moved it upstairs and it really is my space.

Rich: 12:13 It’s not a place I hang out with friends. It’s not a place you entertain people. And that’s what for me makes it perfect. There’s never anybody else in it. It is solely mine.

Cara: 12:23 So we, I mean obviously I had it pretty easy because we did have whole entire rooms to dedicate to our own spaces. But, um, I guess we can dive into some tips for if you don’t each have your own room, like if you’re in an apartment, a studio, a smaller house, um, we live that life too. Um, with that, I feel like you’re always fighting over the good spot. Like there’s that good part of the couch or that like one chair that’s better than the rest. Um, so my best tip for that is to create two equally amazing spots in your house and customize them for each of you. So my grandparents actually did this really well.

Cara: 13:00 They each had their own rocking chair and my grandpas was like a big wooden papa bear chair. And My grandmas was like cushiony and cute and she like sat there and knit. Um, but they had like everything within arms reach that they like doing and they really customized like their own spots to be theirs. Um, so if you’re a homebody and you’re sitting at home a lot, you might really want to have that spot that feels like yours versus like fighting over the good spot

Rich: 13:27 whose grandparents didn’t have that? I mean, I think that’s a staple of any grandparent’s house as much as you tell yourself you don’t want that boy, does it work? Yeah. Especially in an apartment. You talk about the couches naturally that you can fit in an apartment only have probably one, maybe two good spots. I doubt it. And then the couch starts to naturally soften and deflate it.

Cara: 13:49 Sink in the middle

Rich: 13:51 Yeah. Nobody sits in the middle because you know we’re not crazy. And then, um, I think the two chair model works awesome in the apartment cause you can just like you said, it’s like setting up your own little space. Even if you could still see each other, you can have different end tables, your end tables can serve different functions. You know, you can have a big basket to hold your knitting stuff cause you know, you’re a big knitter. No she’s not. But you know. Yeah. And you know, you can have your own chargers. You know, maybe I need a couple charters who like to have my iPad and my iPhone next to me. Maybe Cara only once one charger. Maybe she wants her computer charger there. That is a good way to set up your own space. And then when you sit down in the evening, all your stuff is there. All your stuff is with you. I think another big thing, and we touched on it a little earlier too, is learning to do your own stuff in the same space. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with you opening your computer and your husband or your partner opening up their iPad and putting in a pair of headphones each. You know that that’s a good way to unplug and to kind of do your own thing in the exact same place

Cara: 14:55 And if you happen to have like an amazing couch with like two good sides, you could just like carve out each side of the couch. But if you don’t, you could go for more of like a love seat. And then two chairs kind of like pick group set up versus like the big couch kind of set up. Um,

Rich: 15:15 I think it’ll pay dividends. You gotta you gotta sort of grapple with and accept the fact that your apartment isn’t an entertaining space yet. Like you’re, you’re not there in life. You’ll get there one day, you will have the place that can host host, you know, four or five, six, seven, upwards of 10, 12 people. But I think you’re going to be happier. And I know I was setting up the space for the two of you, just like we set up for the two of US versus trying to force some big piece of furniture in there because you’re like, wow, what happens when mom and dad and sister and brother come over? Where do we all sit? You don’t, you know, or are you or your, you have chairs that work for a short period of time. Maybe you have some folding chairs, you have some auxiliary options. But ultimately what, like 80% and 90% of time unless you, unless you have certain situations, that’s always possible. You know, 80 90% of time, probably closer to 90 for most of us. Those of us in our, in our, you know, mid to mid twenties to early thirties you’re spending most of that time by yourselves in that place, you know, and you can, you’ll probably spend even more time by yourselves if you don’t try to force it into an entertaining space. And I know that’s tough to swallow. I’m a big,

Cara: 16:26 it is, but it’s like I feel like you have to look at your lifestyle cause I guess there probably is some people that really entertain, but I think most of us are like that couple on HGTV where it’s like we need space for entertaining and they throw like one party just like the one time the cameras come back to check out how they’re doing and then like don’t entertain the rest of the year. So yeah.

Rich: 16:46 Well let me just look at your week, right? Like five days probably by yourself during the work week and not doing a lot of entertaining during the work week and then maybe what Max two days on the weekend, probably one. I mean w in any other world it doesn’t make sense to set up something for the one day a week. It usage wise for one day a week versus five. So set it up to help you distress and help you live. It helps you relax for those five days and figure out alternatives for that one day. Maybe you meet places, maybe you’d go out, maybe you meet at the park, maybe you do other things like that versus meeting in your space if you don’t have it

Cara: 17:21 or maybe you’re great at like a really good multiuse space, like some of European styles where everything like tucks way and like tiny corners and you can like pull it all out when you need it. But either way, I mean we’re not great at that. Nothing like a couch that turns into a desk and vice versa. I think that’s a thing. The double decker one, what is it? Oh, double decker. Capital Ducker couch. It’s like a bunk bed. Yeah, like double decker futon couch. So they also turned the like full bunk beds. I think we need one of those [inaudible] generally we did that in college and 10 out of 10 do not recommend once you’ve graduated.

Cara: 17:59 #OBSESSED

Cara: 18:05 Okay, so rich, what are you obsessed with this week?

Rich: 18:09 I am currently obsessed with let go and other marketing apps. Right now I am in the process hold. Really. My wife is in the process of selling old things that we thought forever. We need a tables, chairs, excetera in taking that money and buying new things with it that we actually need. I mean, this comes with progressing through the early stages of life. You know, we’re a little bit younger, but you go from studio till one bedroom to two bedroom to maybe even a home and you buy things at the time that fit the space you have, or cheap or both, or cheap. But the point is is you buy things to fit the space you have and they don’t necessarily translate well to the next space. Taking those things, putting them on, let go. Especially if you take good care of your staff, putting them on other, you know, marketplace applications.

Rich: 19:00 I’ve been shocked at the price we’ve been able to get for some stuff. You know, almost making back a lot of money. You’re never going to make back 100% your money, nor should you. That’s just rude. Yeah. But pretty close. And then turning around and, and using that to help fund some things that fit our spaces better. Yeah. Um, it’s been awesome and I’m currently obsessed with it. It’s a little bit of work. Um, most people pick it up. Most people use Venmo and cash and other easy things and, um, it’s great way to clear space. And so, like I said, it’s a great way to turn around and use that. Use that money to invest in things will fit your space better.

Cara: 19:32 Yeah, I think I was really good at it with all the baby stuff. Like I went through a hardcore electo phase, like probably last summer where I was doing great and then just like listed stuff and never replied to people and never got it sold.

Cara: 19:44 But now I’m kind of in like a purge mood probably because we’re moving, but you’ll more on that later.

Rich: 19:51 Yeah. Yeah. More on that later. So yet again, a transition of space they do for backing up my point. Yeah. But I think if you’re, if you’ve been contemplating that new dining room table, if you’ve been contemplating that new couch, that do you chair who that new computer desks that, that Zen den has? I call my man cave. It’s not a, it’s not a man cave. It is the zen den. Uh, also make sure your wife helps you out with this. And we else some nice oil and cents sprayer things, whatever they call it,

Cara: 20:16 diffusers.

Rich: 20:17 You see I’m not cultured. Uh, some of that. Maybe like a little bamboo shoot fountain. Don’t, let’s not poop who any of that guys definitely get on that. Yeah.

Rich: 20:26 Um, but it works great.

Cara: 20:27 Um, yeah, and I think it’s really fun to be able to like, like that’s how you can get money to swap your space if you’re like, I want to redecorate, but I don’t have money. Like get some seed money by selling your old crap. That’s what thank you for finishing my thought. I had lost my train there. It was that. Yeah. If you’ve been thinking about that dining room table, maybe see you can get for that one that’s currently sitting there. I mean, yeah, 500 bucks, whatever a dining room table can cost sometimes. Sounds like a lot. But what if 250

Cara: 20:55 do you that can come from the old one. True. Can you going to ask me what I’m loving?

Rich: 20:59 Cara, what are you hashtag obsessed with right now?

Cara: 21:04 I’m obsessed with watercolors, which I know is kind of a boring answer, but

Rich: 21:08 super.

Cara: 21:10 I like forgot about them. I was really into them like I dunno a couple of years ago and then just kinda got bored. But they are great for like some DIY wall art. Like if you just do some like random little shapes and then slap that thing in a frame, like a gold frame. It looks so good. Like it looks so polished and you don’t even have to be good at it because it’s abstract.

Rich: 21:29 Like I feel like that’s all art. Yeah, you artists types. You’re just like that’s artistic expression. Like no that’s a bad looking bird.

Cara: 21:38 Well that’s the thing is like, I feel like with watercolors, if you’re trying to draw a bird then it like never looks like a bird.

Cara: 21:44 Cause water colors hard.

Rich: 21:46 You got to do the Bob Ross thing where they’re just like two little like a little v distant. You’re always drawing mountains that way. The birds are just little little V’s. And if you’ve ever, I feel like if you’ve ever think your shapes look lacking, just tell, tell people they have an emotion.

Cara: 21:59 Yeah, that circle is sad.

Rich: 22:01 Yeah, the square is really excited. That’s why it’s going outwards.

Cara: 22:05 So anyway, and watercolor is also super cheap. So that was my other thing. It’s a really good way to like throw up some wall decor without spending money on real art. And you can always change it out later and not feel bad because it costs you a piece of paper and like a $12 watercolor set from target. So if you’ve never been into water watercolors, I recommend them

Rich: 22:27 and you might be able to sell on, let go for like 15 bucks and make a little money. Probably hit that shit. Catchers just for sound. No. Okay. We don’t, sorry, we don’t have any of that here. This is my first time.

Cara: 22:43 Wait, WHAT?

Rich: 22:46 Let her throw your stuff away.

Cara: 22:49 Like when she moves in?

Rich: 22:50 Yeah. That’s my take. Or maybe even before. Let’s just be honest, if you are just moving in together, it doesn’t matter if, if you’re young, older, let her throw your stuff away. One, it’s not worth the battle to, it’s nowhere near as nice as you think it is. That’s true. If you’re younger, if you’re in your early twenties just out of college, popular time to move in that couch that was in your apartment have four guys for four years is disgusting.

Cara: 23:18 That’s why we’re throwing it out. We’re doing you a favor

Rich: 23:20 it needs to go. This is my hot take. When she moves in there’s always that conversation of hey, she’s moving all her stuff and she’s getting rid of all my stuff. Okay. Let her get rid of your shit. I’m sorry because it’s basically what it is. My first story, my best experience with this is Cara just moved into our first apartment.

Rich: 23:38 I graduated about a year ahead of Cara, so I had been there for a year. I had to let it keep me late with you know, guy stuff mostly from uh, college and also things my parents didn’t want from their home on the hand me down stuff, the hand me down furniture, let her get rid of that stuff, start to find your own identity. But I walked into our bathroom one day and I think at work that day I had complained to a friend about like all my stuff’s getting thrown away. I walked into our bathroom that night and there was a bamboo shoot in the corner, a nice new rug, an oil diffuser — got at that time — every day and a fountain. And I walked in there to take a shower and listen to the water trickle and just close my eyes and smell lavender. I’m sure is what was in the diffuser and realize guys that this isn’t that bad.

Cara: 24:27 It’s actually better.

Rich: 24:28 You can fight the fight. Maybe fight the fight a little bit. People would, it comes down to it. Let her throw your stuff away. Yeah, like cling on to sentimental things. And there’s obviously like the big things which just need to go put even like the little stuff, you know, let her put your mark on your place. Or if you’re moving into her place, just be quiet. Just, just don’t know. I feel like you have to put your market a little bit, both of yours. You’ve got to carve out your space. But, and obviously I don’t mean sentimental things. Don’t be thrown away. His like his collectibles, things like that,

Cara: 25:02 but like weird sentimental things. Like I like this dresser cause it, you know, it’s been with me for 10 years

New Speaker: 25:08 and no, just like that thing on fire or something. Um, I promise your, your, your place for the first time in your entire life will look cohesive.

Rich: 25:16 It’ll look beautiful and it looks satisfying. It’ll smell great. There’s, there’s little, there’s delicacy, delicacies in life that as men, I don’t know if we’re wired to realize we’re missing out on,

Cara: 25:27 No one really teaches you ,

Rich: 25:28 Well it’s just, it’s a mentality thing to me. That couch was fine. I’m using the couches and example, there may or may not have been a couch, can, cannot confirm. Um, that couch has just always been fine. I’ve never thought in my entire life that, hey, maybe we should move on from that couch until you came in and said, hey, we should probably move on from a lot of this stuff. And I’m Kinda like, well, you know, it’s free and Dah, Dah, Dah. And then once you do it, it’s amazing. Now always spend within your means. If she’s going, you know, like real nuts, maybe that’s a red flag, maybe have a talk.

Rich: 25:59 But I’m not saying go out and spend a bunch of money on furniture. I’m just saying, let her do at least the small things and if you can, the big things because you won’t regret it.

Cara: 26:09 So obviously that’s a little bit controversial. So we want to know what you think. Um, leave a comment on the show notes or DM on social or comment on social, however you want to voice your opinion. Um, and let us know what you think about letting her throw away your stuff. And if your situation is like totally different, there’s some role reversal where he had to get rid of your stuff. We want to know that too.

Rich: 26:31 So I really want to know that.

Cara: 26:32 I know I really want a story like that, so hopefully someone has one

Rich: 26:35 and also probably donate it, but the bits called throw your stuff away but donate it to let go.

Rich: 26:41 Let’s, let’s go ahead and tie this right back in. Let go of that stuff and help finance the with the new. But um, yeah, if you’re, if you’re moving in with a boyfriend or a husband or a significant other and they are the person that’s still sitting on their stuff from college or maybe the stuff from like 10 15 years old do they got from their parents, let them listen to this and that and have them DM me if they need to. I’m @ rich newhart on most socials if they need to because I promise it’s worth it.

Cara: 27:07 Yeah. Rich was there too and look, he learned tito just takes a little bit.

New Speaker: 27:11 [whispers] She broke me.

Cara: 27:11 well thanks rich for coming on.

Rich: 27:19 Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Hopefully can do it again.

Cara: 27:22 Yeah. If the people want you back, we’ll bring you back. If you’re sitting there.

Rich: 27:25 If you’re thinking there’s no way I could ever podcast my significant other. It’s doable because if it wasn’t gonna work, it wouldn’t have worked for us.

Cara: 27:31 Yeah. This is actually pretty good.

Rich: 27:33 Yeah, we’re not bad

Cara: 27:34 No, we could do it again,

Rich: 27:36 This has legs. Look for a new podcast… I’m just kidding.

Cara: 27:40 Yeah, no. If you think of one and you want to do all the hard stuff,

Rich: 27:43 well, I, we’ve got a bachelor podcast I think coming down the pipe. Two dudes talking the bachelor over a beer at just if you’d like to hear it.

Cara: 27:51 Yeah, [laughs]

Rich: 27:52 I’m just kidding. We’re totally going off the dome now. We’re derailing. Time to get out of here. Love you.

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